New Radar in Dubai

[the eldest boy]

Sorry Haissam, but yes way: the UK has had cameras for a few years now that do exactly that, using number plate recognition. They are even installed in patrol cars so that as the police drive through town they get an audible alert and on-screen display as they pass a vehicle which has pending fines etc. The Congestion Charge system in London also works on number plate recognition. Needless to say number plate cloning is a growing problem there.

The scariest cameras in the UK are the ones which read your number plate at one location and then read it again at another point down the road (up to 5 miles!). They use this data to work out your AVERAGE speed and then issue a fine if it is over the limit.

Data protection laws in the UK mean that they can't compile a database of where everyone is driving all the time, but we don't enjoy those kinds of protection here... (not to say they don't do it in the UK, but at least they can't legally use it against you in court etc.)

Average Speed Check Cameras, as muppet describes above, are a quite ingenious invention and the ONLY thing that can reduce Dubai's abysmal driving standards, so the sooner they arrive here, the better. While they won't neccesarily improve people's driving skills, what they will mean is that persistent speeders will rack up 24 black points very quickly and get them off the road a lot sooner.

Using number plate recognition, the beauty of the system (called SPECS) is that the camera's;

- use no film
- use no flash
- operate night and day using infared light
- they can handle virtually limiteless cars per second
- they can be employed over any distance (recommeded to 10km, but can in theory be measured over any straightline distance)
- the second camera actually takes a head-on photo of the offending car and driver, thus closing the "it wasn't me driving" loophole that previously existed
- they cannot be detected by in-car radar systems
- tickets are automatically printed and issued by the system
- they cannot be fooled by the "speed up, slow down" approach
- contrary to popular belief, they cannot be fooled by changing lanes between cameras
- they can read number plates to ascertain if vehicles are stolen or, for example, if the registered owner is wanted by the police
- they will be used for proposed road toll systems (like the congestion charge)

This technology is FOOLPROOF, there's no way around it and the sooner it arrives here the better. Don't believe any of the sensationalist rubbish that you might read on UK motoring forums about dangers, police-money-making-exercise etc etc. People don't like them because they work, and you HAVE TO slow down when they are in operation.

I was on SZR yesterday, doing about 115kmph in my dad's Pajero and had traffic to my right preventing me (temporarily) from moving lanes. In my mirror, i could see a Range Rover (it's always a Range Rover ) coming up behind me. He got to within about 1ft of my bumper before he started flashing his lights and moving left and right in an attempt to get around me. You know exactly what i'm talking about, because we've all had that experience, and probably on more than one occasion. It's intimidating, and it's dangerous. To be honest, i couldn't care less if this guy wants to kill himself, but i do take issue when he's playing with my life too. When i did eventually get the chance to move over, he sped off at about 200km/hr, doing much the same to every driver in his way.

These camera's will rid Dubai's roads (via the blackpoints system) of these total maniacs, and the accident and death rate will come down immediately when they are introduced. Frankly, i don't care how much money they generate for the police and government, they will be saving lives, and you can't put a price on that.

If you are wondering where this passionate speech comes from, i have had known friends who have been both killed and seriously injured because of their own stupidity (meaning speed) and because of the stupidity (meaning speed) of others.

[the eldest boy]

Those are really dangerous if installed here, because once the radar passes people start pushing their legs down on the accelrator..
Good we dont have any of those here..

Sorry, but since when did accelarating become dangerous? You do it dozens, if not hundreds of times one every single journey you make, it's just the way you do it that makes it dangerous, and the way you do it comes down to the driver, nothing else. It's that type of arguement that sums up why Dubai's road fatality rates are so high (around 2.5/day) and up to 6 times worse by ratio than average stats in Europe of the USA.

Reference my message below, these camara's cannot be beaten by the speed-up/slow down method, and a particular stretch of road might have MANY camera's on a stretch, meaning you don't know which is the last one, and therefor you don't know when you can go over the limit again.

People will also argue that they are dangerous because upon seeing the camera, drivers will look at their speedometer instead of looking at the road. What a load of of complete and utter cr*p (sorry moderators for the language!).

[SSense]

Thanks eldest for the wonderful review of the new radars and sorry to hear about your friends who lost their lives in accidents.
I agree that I do pump my car once a while, but when on SZR or any other road which has traffic, I wont act like those maniacs who reload their car once the car infront of them passes.
You're right, its the way we do it, we all should have know that we might not be scared of driving carelessly, but others drivers on the road do get scared and they might cause an accident, the reason if any lives lost will be us, who dont care about others.

[the eldest boy]

Thanks eldest for the wonderful review of the new radars and sorry to hear about your friends who lost their lives in accidents.
I agree that I do pump my car once a while, but when on SZR or any other road which has traffic, I wont act like those maniacs who reload their car once the car infront of them passes.
You're right, its the way we do it, we all should have know that we might not be scared of driving carelessly, but others drivers on the road do get scared and they might cause an accident, the reason if any lives lost will be us, who dont care about others.

Hiya Ssense. You know what? I'm a hypocrite. I'm as guity as anyone of creeping over the speed limit overy now and then so my rant is as much to myself as to anyone else. I for one should know better but even with my previous experiences i haven't yet learned the lessons, and that makes me sad, especially for those people who have died on the roads. They don't have the choice anymore - but we all still do.

I like SPECS cameras because you can't beat them, and they make ME a better driver, if only for a few minutes and a few miles. Yeah, you can try and fool them, but eventually you realise that the only way to avoid fines/point is to slow down and obey the speed limit. It's that simple.

In the UK (in case you don't know) we have windscreen mounted tax-discs, a small bit of paper which proves that you have paid your annual road tax fee (like a salkic tag basically). They are (in most cases) printed by computer and the writing is probably 0.5-1cm high. Spec's cameras can read them.

This technology does exist and it get's more sophisticated every year. Frustrating, yes. Needed, yes.

[SSense]

As you said, people who died on the roads dont have a choice, but we all still do.. We should keep this in mind while driving.. :)

[Haissam]

Dont all the radar detectors detect the temporary radars ??

it detects them but sometimes it does that when it's too late.. mine works fine coz i usually set it to highway mode which means it beeps on any minor signal it detects and gives you reasonably time to brake.. this also depends on the mobile radar, it's position & the surroundings (affect reflections).





and regarding average speed cameras & number plate detectors, hmm i admit i haven't done any research on these but i'm sure technology can do that but at a high cost.. payback period would be fast in a city like dubai so i wouldn't be surprised if they were implemented..

but the traffic dept here should worry more about:

- the fcuking truck drivers on Al Khail, Emirates & Bypass Rd :read: those are the ones causing the most danger when doing 120-140km/h in huge trucks, which in my opinion is more dangerous that doing 250km/h in an average car, considering their braking & stability capabilities :thumbsdown:

- truck, pick-up, van & taxi drivers who open their door while in traffic & spit on the road as if nobody even exists around! those should be hung from their b*lls & i'm sure you all find this offensive! :thumbsdown:

- drivers who drive slow on the fast lane.. like on Emirates Rd for example there's 6 lanes but u see an a$$hole who decided to drive less than 100 on the leftmost lane while he can move at least 2 lanes to the right & give way to guys who wanna do 120 or even 140km/h :slap:

speed kills that's right, but stupid drivers should be shot! :read:

[SSense]

but the traffic dept here should worry more about:

- truck, pick-up, van & taxi drivers who open their door while in traffic & spit on the road as if nobody even exists around! those should be hung from their b*lls & i'm sure you all find this offensive! :thumbsdown:

- drivers who drive slow on the fast lane.. like on Emirates Rd for example there's 6 lanes but u see an a$$hole who decided to drive less than 100 on the leftmost lane while he can move at least 2 lanes to the right & give way to guys who wanna do 120 or even 140km/h :slap:

speed kills that's right, but stupid drivers should be shot! :read:

I totally agree with those points Haissam, you should also add the people who smoke and throw their cigarettes out of their car on the road while driving, as if they are sitting in a smokers center. Instead, put an ash tray in your car..
Drivers who slow on fast lanes, Id say those are really dumb, I mean, what on earth are they doing on the fast lane driving slowly ? Its called fast lane for a reason..

[the eldest boy]

and regarding average speed cameras & number plate detectors, hmm i admit i haven't done any research on these but i'm sure technology can do that but at a high cost.. payback period would be fast in a city like dubai so i wouldn't be surprised if they were implemented..

but the traffic dept here should worry more about:

- the fcuking truck drivers on Al Khail, Emirates & Bypass Rd :read: those are the ones causing the most danger when doing 120-140km/h in huge trucks, which in my opinion is more dangerous that doing 250km/h in an average car, considering their braking & stability capabilities :thumbsdown:

- truck, pick-up, van & taxi drivers who open their door while in traffic & spit on the road as if nobody even exists around! those should be hung from their b*lls & i'm sure you all find this offensive! :thumbsdown:

- drivers who drive slow on the fast lane.. like on Emirates Rd for example there's 6 lanes but u see an a$$hole who decided to drive less than 100 on the leftmost lane while he can move at least 2 lanes to the right & give way to guys who wanna do 120 or even 140km/h :slap:

speed kills that's right, but stupid drivers should be shot! :read:

And this is the point...through fines and points (or istant bans), SPECS would rid the roads of the dangerous lorry drivers and (if the system we set-up to do so), people driving too slowly in the fast lane...and so the roads become safer!

It won't be able to do anything about the spitters or smokers though mate, the technology's not that advanced! Sorry!

[SSense]

If they could built this radar then im sure one day they will build another one which would capture anyone spitting on the roads or throwing cigarettes..

[muppet]

Haissam, there is no such thing as a "fast lane" there is a driving lane on the right and then there are overtaking lanes to the left. If you are not overtaking anything then you should be in the driving lane. In fact you should reach your highest speeds in the right hand lane, because that is where you should be when there is no traffic.

Eldest, I'm sorry to hear about your friends, but I don't agree that just because a camera has made you slow down, it has made you a better driver. It may have made you less likely to have an accident, but that is not the same thing. Driving better is about being more observant, anticipating other drivers and making swift progress smoothly and safely. When everyone drives better we have less congestion and shorter, less stressful journeys.

Speed cameras are a blanket approach to road safety and can do nothing about the UAE's most dangerous driving behaviour. Speed cameras cannot detect tailgating, swerving, poor lane discipline, incorrect use of hazard warning lights or driving without due care and attention. Of course they are very good at raising revenue and they do not require a lot of manpower or training, but surely that's not why police forces choose them over properly trained traffic patrols...

[Haissam]

Haissam, there is no such thing as a "fast lane" there is a driving lane on the right and then there are overtaking lanes to the left. If you are not overtaking anything then you should be in the driving lane. In fact you should reach your highest speeds in the right hand lane, because that is where you should be when there is no traffic.

as a concept i agree to what you're saying, but in many countries this is not the case.. i believe in europe it is applied but not in the states :)

on the roads i mentioned, the two or three right-most lanes are for trucks only.. don't try driver there please!

[the eldest boy]

Haissam, there is no such thing as a "fast lane" there is a driving lane on the right and then there are overtaking lanes to the left. If you are not overtaking anything then you should be in the driving lane. In fact you should reach your highest speeds in the right hand lane, because that is where you should be when there is no traffic.

Eldest, I'm sorry to hear about your friends, but I don't agree that just because a camera has made you slow down, it has made you a better driver. It may have made you less likely to have an accident, but that is not the same thing. Driving better is about being more observant, anticipating other drivers and making swift progress smoothly and safely. When everyone drives better we have less congestion and shorter, less stressful journeys.

Speed cameras are a blanket approach to road safety and can do nothing about the UAE's most dangerous driving behaviour. Speed cameras cannot detect tailgating, swerving, poor lane discipline, incorrect use of hazard warning lights or driving without due care and attention. Of course they are very good at raising revenue and they do not require a lot of manpower or training, but surely that's not why police forces choose them over properly trained traffic patrols...

Hello Muppet,

I agree with you when you say that making someone drive slower will not necessarily make them better drivers, but what it does do is reduce the liklihood of crashes, or at least it reduces the liklihood of major crashes and fatalities. Good, responsibile driving is an attitude, and you can't change that with anything except education. Unfortunately, there are many drivers on Dubai's road who, without wanting to appear to "pro-west" here, have learned to drive in countries where the standards of road safety are poor and getting a license is all too easy. Don't get me wrong, you certainly see poor driving in the UK - people speed and can be irresponsible, but not often do you see things that are "shocking" or "unbelievable", which in Dubai you see every single minute of every single journey you make. So, in the absence of good education and good attitudes, the simple answer is to get these people off the roads through points. The police can't be everywhere, they can't see every incident, so at least cameras act as a set of eyes, picking up speeders (who are generally also the guys who are tailgaiting, driving irresponsibily etc) and fining them until they either get the message and start behaving or get banned.

My friend has just passed her driving test with a copany based on Al Quoz (can't remember the company name...). I am staggered, and appaled, by some of the things she's learned and what she's been told, things that in the West would be an instant fail on a test. Here, they are the norm, and they are deemed safe and correct. People are being taught bad practices from their first lesson, so no wonder the standards are so low.

Reading the black points list is a great indication of what Dubai's authorities think of road safety. Have a look at how many points you get for the various infringement - the priorities are all wrong.

I would love to see more patrols on the road who can issue instant fines for bad practices or dangerous behaviour on the road, but the resources (and for me, the desire) just isn't there. All they need to do is stick a patrol car on each busy junction at rush-hour (i'm thinking of the Greens, Barsha, Trade Centre etc) and watch for people who cut into traffic at the last minute, people who block traffic, people who speed, unsafe vehicles and they'd be banning dozens of people every single minute. Not ony that, but the traffic would move faster for those of use who are obeying the rules.

My brother used to live at Port Rashid, and there's on particular (traffic lights) juntion there with three approach lanes, two to go straigh on through the lights, and one turning right at the lights. You could sit there for literally an hour because all the arrogent, bad drivers would simply use the right hand lane to bypass all the waiting traffic and then cut right in at the lights themselves. More often than not, this meant that they would have to stop in the right hand lane, thus blocking the traffic, and wait till the lights went green beofre they could cut in. One day, there was a police car sat in the pavement at the lights, issuing fines/penalties to anyone who cut in at the last minute or who blocked the traffic. They were also there the next day, and you know what?, it took me less than 5 minutes to get through the lights, and not one single person tried to cut in. It's so simple it's unbelievable, and yet this goes on at EVERY junction in EVERY part of Dubai EVERY minute of the day, and not a thing is done about it. That's why it's impossible to get anywhere in this place, and allowing this behaviour to go unpunished only serves to increase bad behaviour.

[Dragosid]

Guys, if you want to do more reading regarding the precise capabilities of each type of radar you can dig in here:

http://elfurl.com/cejll

(just to avoid confusion and a few fairy tales I've read just before ...)


D.

[SSense]

Thanks Dragosid, kindly introduce yourself in the New Members Introduction section :)

[M_Powerholic]

Found this in their website ( Investor Relation ) :

Sensys Traffic obtains new major order from Dubai worth SEK 60 million

2008-06-10
Sensys received a new order today from Beams Trading in Dubai worth SEK 60 million for the delivery of speed and red-light monitoring systems for the Dubai Police force. The order embraces the first of three phases of a project, where the other two phases will be about the same size.

"The order is further evidence of our increasingly strong position in Dubai and the Middle East in general. It is also recognition that our technology with multi-target tracking radar has distinct advantages over conventional technology," says Johan Frilund, CEO of Sensys Traffic AB.

Deliveries to Dubai are expected to take place in the fourth quarter 2008, and will lead to Sensys establishing a base of more than 500 systems :eek: in Dubai by the end of 2008.

Sensys has previously obtained orders for delivery to Saudi Arabia and Sweden. Sensys is also taking part in a number of important procurement procedures, where the overall process can often take up to one or two year